Pikes Peak River Runners

Managing Expectations

Frequently asked Questions for New (&Old) club members

The list below is typically how many club trips are run.  However, everyone has a different style.  Ask the permit holder/trip leader for their expectations of the river trip.  We created this list to manage expectations around group trips as a helpful hint. 

What's the difference between a permit holder & trip leader?

• Sometimes they are the same thing.  A permit holder is the person (boater or non-boater) who has the permit paperwork in their name.  The trip leader is the organizer.  They can be two different people.  Ask!

How do I know which rivers require a permit or don't require a permit?

• Visit our Permit planning page. I've noted which rivers require a permit.

What advice do you have for a non-boater to join a club trip?

• Get a permit, come to meetings (face to face meetings are extremely enlightening for both parties), own your own personal gear (dry bag, lifejacket, helmet, wetsuit, splash jackets, dry suits, drinking water bottle, personal dishes, small collapsible river chair), help out on trip planning and during the trip, hone your on-river skills, enlarge your group of networked boaters, talk to boaters, be prepared to join trips at the last minute,

• Get your foot in the door by joining day trips first so club members can get to know you.  They typically involve a lot less planning and are flexible.  Many of us boat singly and don't set boats up for passengers.  Others like to have a bow-monkey to help them manage the rapids pushiness. 

What's the difference between a non-boater and non-rower?

• A non-boater would typically be someone who wants to tag along on a river trip and has for all practical purposes never been boating or only been on a commercial rafting trip.  They would be fairly "clueless" and it would be difficult to count on them to help out much or know what to do during rapids, especially in emergencies such as flips, etc...

• A non-rower would have been on river trips as a private participant, know what to expect but might need help in learning to row.  They might want to learn  to row in order to eventually purchase their own boat- this is a great way to try out different styles of boats.  Don't expect a new rower to take on the Middle Fork at 8 feet, the San Juan at 1,500 cfs might be a perfect trip to teach someone new skills on a borrowed or row sharing boat. 

Are club trips posted on the website? 

• Sometimes yes, sometimes no.  Sometimes they are announced on the free discussion group, sometimes at meetings. 

• Subscribe to our FREE discussion group at

What are "on river skills" and what does a "strong camp helper" look like?

•  On River skills- know how to high-side, jump on/off boats, tie up boats securely on shore, pull swimmers into the boat, paddle, take direction from the captain well, learn how to read the river, can captain the boat in a pinch, pay attention to river miles (know where you are on the river- use river maps), help find camp (know the plan for the day), know rescue skills, take a river rescue class, be prepared to flip and rescue yourself, be flexible, support the trip leader (they've typically got a lot of responsibilities).

• Strong helper in camp- haul gear to and from camp, unload your personal dry bag, have your personal dry bag and all gear packed and ready at the boat before breakfast!, set up and take down the groover, set up and take down the kitchen, take care of trash, pay close attention to the routine the first day in camp and follow it succeeding days, know which group gear is packed on which boat and help all boaters unload and load that gear, ask the trip leader on a daily basis how you can help. 

What are the typical club meetings like?

• Arrive before the official meeting time and order food from the establishment that is allowing us to meet at their location for free

• Go over recent trips and upcoming trips

• Share pictures

• Review flows/snowpack levels

• Plan upcoming trips based on above

• Announce invites on river trips (optional)

How do we plan ahead for group meals?

• Typically, we divide up the meals (by day) and create cook teams (usually two - husband and wife).  They are responsible for planning, buying, transporting and carrying the group meals (on their boat) and finally cooking and cleaning up after the meals on the river.  It's a long day but when it's over, you are usually off-duty for the rest of the trip or off duty for 3-4 days.

• Personal dishes are on your own and stored in your personal dry bag or personal spot on your boat.  It's amazing how much cleaner dishes are when you know you will eat on it next!

What's involved with group gear?

• Many in the club have purchased expensive group gear such as; kitchen (set-ups), groovers, firepans, ashcans, dutch oven's, kitchen tables, dish buckets/strainers, propane tanks, satellite phones, stoves, required river gear, blaster,  etc...

• Just because they bought it does not mean they can carry it all.  Expect that group gear is distributed on many boats.  The owners of that expensive group gear expect you to rig it in securely so it won't be lost in case of flip.  Treat it like you bought it!

What are personal dishes?

• Plate, fork, spoon, knife (maybe even a steak knife), bowl, juice cup, coffee cup

What's a typical shuttle encompass?

• On your own, means driving to the put-in, unloading your gear, asking a non-rigger to drive your vehicle (one driver per vehicle) to the takeout while you rig your boat, all individual drivers get in one designated vehicle and drive back to the put-in, run the river, someone or several in the group takes the remaining (vehicle-less) boater and maybe their gear (if possible) back to the put-in.  This involves a lot of time, plan it well before the trip!

• Paying for a shuttle- can vary greatly, but requires up-front planning such as key arrangements with company driver, paperwork, vehicles and trailers in good working condition, full tanks of gas, gas money to driver, coordinating pickup location, takeout location and rarely able to do this without well in advance coordination. 

• Shuttle- group or individual cost- it depends, talk about it before the trip!

• Gas money is usually not part of group cost but many times is split by those carpooling. 

What do typical camp responsibilities entail (every time you set up and tear down)?

• Set up kitchen- lay down kitchen tarp (picks up crumbs), table placement, overhead tarp in case of rain (optional), bring up kitchen, set up stove/propane, blaster, dish buckets with river water, drinking water jug, and  handwash

• Set up groover- includes toilet paper, seat, handwash, toilet chemical, toilet seat cleaning supplies

• Tear down- opposite of the setup
  

How do we plan for personal drinks and drinking water?

• Personal drinks are on your own- alcohol and soda

• Typically one 6 gallon water jug filled at home - per boat works. 

• Fill up- depends on the river you are on if you even need to.

• We don't filter but do treat with chlorine on longer trips.

• Don't bring glass

How do we split group costs?

• Some trips require upfront deposits- these are typically set by the permit/shuttle costs and are a portion of the trip cost.  Many times they are non-refundable and due by a deadline.

• Typically we designate a group accountant (many times also the permit holder/trip leader).

• Since meals are purchased by the cook teams they are required to keep their receipts, subtracting any personal items they might have bought in the same store trip.

• The trip accountant will tally up all the group costs (as submitted by individual boaters) and divide by the entire group number.  This is the cost/person for the trip.  What you have already paid (in deposit and individual group supplies) is subtracted and each person has a different amount due.  Rarely do you get money back but it does happen (if you bought a lot of food/group supplies such as trash bags, toilet paper/chemical, etc...).

• Most of the time the permit holder ends up paying most out of pocket and gets reimbursed by the group - unless they collected a large deposit from each person.  We try to balance it and it usually ends up being a small amount when it's all said and done.

• Paying up- can be done last night on the river or after the trip- I notice it's a lot harder to catch up with folks after the trip is over.  Bring your checkbook and try to settle up quickly.  Don't forget to bring a calculator and your receipts on the river. 

• Set an ice limit cost up-front- this has been a problem in the past- we don't like to see $200 in ice costs for one boater because they wanted their beer in a cooler for an entire Grand trip!  That's what drag bags are for.

Expectations (in no particular order):

• No drugs

• Minimal drinking

• Help each other out

• Communicate plans for the day (for rapids, rest breaks, camps, hikes, etc...)

• Don't go hiking alone without telling someone- better yet take someone with you

• Make sure your personal medical insurance covers you in case of accident

• Have a sand stake handy to tie up your own boat- try not to cross tie to other boats without discussing as a group first.

• Have both a long bow & stern line- it makes life so much easier

• Be flexible- you can't do 100% activities on every river- you don't have time, be able to adjust when circumstances make it difficult to do your first choice

• Night before takeout- talk about takeout plans- avoid lunch on the ramp, discuss potential congestion, etc...